The heavy subsidy by the Chinese government is the reason they would dominate though. The tariffs won’t ever be lifted unless they stop manipulating the prices to be lower than domestic competitors…
Government providing money to create innovative new tech and make it available at a lowe cost to their constituents
Manipulating the prices to be lower
I just wanted to point out the pervasiveness of capitalist propaganda here. They’re not manipulating prices, they’re helping their people. It just so happens that our capitalistic systems don’t do well when someone helps their neighbor because then we can’t abuse them.
Now don’t get me wrong though, I’m not gonna sit here and tell you the Chinese government does no wrong. But in just this particular case I think we’re picking the wrong battle
China helping it’s people in a social way destroyed the soul-crushing capitalist system of the western world
Doesn’t sound too bad when you put it that way. China could go about it better, with worker rights and whatnot, but the government pumping money into the hands of the everyman is not something I can be against
The reasons why China can produce so much cheaper than Germany are because Germany pays fair wages, has to get enough taxes to pay for free healthcare and the welfare system, provides free access to education (including universities), has very high environmental standards, …
You may be calling a social democracy “soul-crushing capitalist system”. I call it home (not Germany specifically but also a social democracy), freedom for everyone to follow their dreams (you can be completely poor and still study whatever you want (with a side job if subsidies aren’t high enough) to get the job you want).
When I need medical help I go to the hospital (or even call an ambulance if it’s urgent), get treated, and leave without having to pay anything. For university I’m paying 27€ (~30$) per semester. On the streets you barely see homeless people because there are places where they can go to find food, shelter and advice. Etc.
Paying 50% of my income (only like 30% when not earning that much) in taxes is well worth it. Sure, private insurance might be better for me personally. But it brings me joy to be able to support this system, all those happy people are well worth the slight extra cost.
If there is meant to be capitalist competition then the competitors should not be massively funded by the government. China massively funds their electric car industry, principally because they own them.
That said, US carmakers get Government bailouts all the time.
Right but it’s the specific use of the phrase “manipulating prices.”
Manipulating has a negative connotation, it’s a buzzword used often in capitalist propaganda. They’re not manipulating prices, they’re subsidizing the industry so that their people can reap the benefits of their taxes in a tangible way. The same way Americans subsidize farmers, and their EV industry. We just don’t subsidize it as much.
They would dominate because they make a good product that isn’t more expensive than it has to be. US car companies have discontinued most affordable options to try and force people to only buy larger, higher end vehicles that most people have no use for. Now they’re mad that international companies are willing to sell the products they refuse to.
Allowing your local industries to be dominate is common sense. As much as china is smart to subsidize theirs so heavily, the united states isn’t wrong to tariff them
Yet we don’t try to sell into the Chinese market for the express purpose of undercutting their domestic product. It’s common sense to not allow that to happen.
They don’t because no one would pay double the price for a worse vehicle dude…. To undercut them, they would need to tank their profit, which obviously for good reason, no company would do, it’s also hella illegal to boot regardless. So to answer why? It’s fucking illegal dude lmfao. You clearly have a axe to grind, and aren’t even looking at the actual data, just the bias in front of you regarding “China”.
People are free to import and buy them, what don you think is stopping them…? Its because it’s a more expensive inferior product. There’s no hidden thing here, there’s no conspiracy. You just can’t understand that China makes cheaper stuff, fullstop.
The official reason for tariffs is government subsidy AFAIK, but in reality the moment they lower the tariffs, US and EU automobile industry is done.
If China is subsidizing the vheicle and we purchase them here, that means we are drawing from China’s subsidies.
The claim is this is to save industries but the notion that was need to save specific industry is never questioned.
We’re told we’re protecting jobs but that’s bullshit. We’re only protecting the profits of capitalists.
The heavy subsidy by the Chinese government is the reason they would dominate though. The tariffs won’t ever be lifted unless they stop manipulating the prices to be lower than domestic competitors…
I just wanted to point out the pervasiveness of capitalist propaganda here. They’re not manipulating prices, they’re helping their people. It just so happens that our capitalistic systems don’t do well when someone helps their neighbor because then we can’t abuse them.
Now don’t get me wrong though, I’m not gonna sit here and tell you the Chinese government does no wrong. But in just this particular case I think we’re picking the wrong battle
Not regulating China when they did the same with photovoltaic cells is what destroyed the German photovoltaic industry, which before that was leading.
Doesn’t sound too bad when you put it that way. China could go about it better, with worker rights and whatnot, but the government pumping money into the hands of the everyman is not something I can be against
And stop persecuting Uyghurs and what not.
The reasons why China can produce so much cheaper than Germany are because Germany pays fair wages, has to get enough taxes to pay for free healthcare and the welfare system, provides free access to education (including universities), has very high environmental standards, …
You may be calling a social democracy “soul-crushing capitalist system”. I call it home (not Germany specifically but also a social democracy), freedom for everyone to follow their dreams (you can be completely poor and still study whatever you want (with a side job if subsidies aren’t high enough) to get the job you want).
When I need medical help I go to the hospital (or even call an ambulance if it’s urgent), get treated, and leave without having to pay anything. For university I’m paying 27€ (~30$) per semester. On the streets you barely see homeless people because there are places where they can go to find food, shelter and advice. Etc.
Paying 50% of my income (only like 30% when not earning that much) in taxes is well worth it. Sure, private insurance might be better for me personally. But it brings me joy to be able to support this system, all those happy people are well worth the slight extra cost.
It is capitalist perspective, but not propaganda.
If there is meant to be capitalist competition then the competitors should not be massively funded by the government. China massively funds their electric car industry, principally because they own them.
That said, US carmakers get Government bailouts all the time.
Right but it’s the specific use of the phrase “manipulating prices.”
Manipulating has a negative connotation, it’s a buzzword used often in capitalist propaganda. They’re not manipulating prices, they’re subsidizing the industry so that their people can reap the benefits of their taxes in a tangible way. The same way Americans subsidize farmers, and their EV industry. We just don’t subsidize it as much.
You are right
They would dominate because they make a good product that isn’t more expensive than it has to be. US car companies have discontinued most affordable options to try and force people to only buy larger, higher end vehicles that most people have no use for. Now they’re mad that international companies are willing to sell the products they refuse to.
Yes, usa car companies are bitches. But it is laughable that you think the reason it isn’t more expensive has nothing to do with being subsidized
The reason it is vastly less expensive is due to being subsidized. You don’t seem to understand what is being said and can be backed by facts.
Allowing your local industries to be dominate is common sense. As much as china is smart to subsidize theirs so heavily, the united states isn’t wrong to tariff them
And not the 3.2 billion that the government dumped into them…
I’ve heard they are good cars but the price is manipulated.
so… how much did does the us government give its auto industry?
They gave us auto companies 81 billion between 2008 and 2014, and continue to subsidize the industry to this day.
pot meet kettle
BYD recieved 3.7 billion between 2018-2022 2.2 billion in 2022 alone.
Ford recieved under 500 million in 2022 but did recieve 1.7 billion in 2023.
Ford motor apparently has recieved 7.7 billion in subsidies since the year 2000. Usually from states rather than fedrally.
Yet we don’t try to sell into the Chinese market for the express purpose of undercutting their domestic product. It’s common sense to not allow that to happen.
They don’t because no one would pay double the price for a worse vehicle dude…. To undercut them, they would need to tank their profit, which obviously for good reason, no company would do, it’s also hella illegal to boot regardless. So to answer why? It’s fucking illegal dude lmfao. You clearly have a axe to grind, and aren’t even looking at the actual data, just the bias in front of you regarding “China”.
People are free to import and buy them, what don you think is stopping them…? Its because it’s a more expensive inferior product. There’s no hidden thing here, there’s no conspiracy. You just can’t understand that China makes cheaper stuff, fullstop.
Your wrong.
You are*
…….
¡Waaaah bad mon China letting people get around with cars and public transit!
/s
They aren’t manipulating, shits just cheaper to make over there. So they can make more profit and still charge less.
That is verifiably false…
https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-3-7-billion-to-win-the-ev-race/
Read your own source maybe?
The source is also a German investigation? So it may not even be entirely factual either dude…
I’d trust Germany over China any day and twice on Sunday…
Okay, and factually their labor and parts are cheap. Your own source even says that this a major factor.
And you do realize every country subsidizes auto makers yeah? How much did the USA and EU countries do in same time frame…?